DETOXING THC - DEFENDING WEED DUI
Weed DUI - How to handle the situation
Yes, you can get a DUI for weed if you're not stoned. How to avoid testing positive for THC if you consume weed responsibly. This article focuses on the Saliva Test for THC by police and employers, but offers rare technical advise toward the validity of the supposedly ironclad GCMS blood test.
In a case of carriage of justice, luck turned from bad to good for a guy that first tested positive for THC. A sober judge understood that the test results were misinterpreted, misused. The final ruling was not guilty because he was not impaired as only residues were found in his system.
"One guy said he had a beer when he had really had a joint an hour before. So they gave him a breathalizer for alcohol. Pass."
In this day and age, the police force is being decimated. Good officers are quitting because of higher ups that fail to do their jobs and reward good, smart policing. There is now a concentration of lower quality personnel, who do not understand the ins and outs of testing for cannabis, and worse yet, some cops could care less. However, let's understand that the good cops out there need a pat on the back and support. Sometimes the good guys are actually the good guys, and the judge is straight up. America might be great again.
The basic problem is that the DUI testing can go wrong. Medical Doctor Dwight Smith found that currently the false positives for THC DUI approaches 10%. This means that trace amounts of THC can ruin your life, even if you're not stoned at all.
A STORY TO TAKE AWAY
Nine days after smoking a joint a poor guy tested positive. The judge found that Mr. Carroll was nonetheless NOT guilty of drug-driving. Mr. Carroll had been pulled over by police and tested positive for THC, nine days after smoking a joint. .Lismore magistrate David Heilpern described the current testing for cannabis as uncertain-by-design and a mystery.
You only need to use your IQ of 100 to understand the math. With a false positive rate of 5% (half the projection), then in and evening, if 100 drivers are tested, then 5 of them test positive falsely.
If the true incidence of driving while stoned is 1 in 100 (it's much less), then 5/6 people test positive are not guilty. It is simple math, but it's not necessarily taken into account by many of the police enforcement units out there.
Issues - Spot Weed Testing.
- Employees may be fired THC residues from smoking weed on their day off.
- DUI for cannabis in saliva tests is possible, even if you're not really stoned.
- Cannabis users can fight unfair, unreliable testing by quoting the literature and expert witnesses
- If you're not stoned, and test positive, and request a blood test. If this request is denied, there is an outstanding chance the judge will throw out the case entirely (you win).
- Cheap saliva tests can be administered on the spot and officers are not necessarily properly qualified to do so.
- The bad reputation for false positives give a good lawyer a lot of rope to fend off challenges in courtt.
- Saliva test picks up weed consumption 12-24 hours before consumption, but everyone knows that you're only high for an hour or so after toking.
- The limit of detection depends on the person or duration of exposure, so you'll test higher and more likely positive even if you're not high.
- Response time and detection can be lowered in a saliva test by taking in water, brushing teeth, gargling low concentration hydrogen peroxide or mouthwash.
- Sucking on a pen and "oral detox help" is not particularly effective, not better than hydrogen peroxide.
- Sucking on things like mints, chewing gum, which produces saliva, helps clear out dry mouth and residual THC from hours ago, which is the leading cause of a false DUI.
The flaws in spot tests were clearly illustrated by Dr, Smith et.al at the Boston Medical Center in their review of 2009.
Prior to driving or work, brush your teeth and take plaque off the tongue. Gargle with 1% hydrogen peroxide. Then, clean your entire mouth out with a cotton ball. Then chew some gum. Immediately before testing, take a mouth full of the H2O2 solution and swish it around your mouth and swallow. This mobilizes the last of the old saliva sitting around from hours ago out of your mouth, and also removes residuals that are stuck on your tongue. The hydrogen peroxide especially cleans the mouth thoroughly of residuals.
THE SWAB TEST PROCEDURE
In a saliva drug test, a tester places a swab between the lower cheek and gums for two or three minutes. This swab is placed in a cup, where the saliva and the THC and cannabinoid components react. THC, other cannabinoids and other drugs show up in colors like a miracle or or mirage.
An interesting defense, especially for those that consume CBD and d8THC (very weakly psychoactive) is to challenge the test, and require the prosecution to show that the test can tell the difference between d9THC - the psychoactive form - and other common but non-psychoactive cannabinoids like d8 THC (common in hemp) and CBD - the second most common cannabinoid in some strains of medical cannabis. GCMS testing can differentiate the different cannabinoids, while spot on the site saliva tests may be confounded.
If you're clearly not stoned, but test positive, you need to insist on doing sobriety tests on the site, like walking in a straight line, touching your nose, standing on one leg (if you're good at it!)
If he refuses to conduct a physical test, then this is strong evidence for you and against the officer that is clearly violating intelligent protocol.
An issue is that manufacturers, some lawmakers, cherry pick that data and oversell the accuracy of the onsite tests, while independent research with contrary findings is minimized or obscured.
"Some of the on the spot THC tests are pretty amazing bits of science, but the fact is there are a lot of chimpanzees out there that have no business being in the DUI business. At the end of the day, in any event, it's a wild goose chase. The cops know that pot smokers aren't an appreciable risk in accidents, but they play along with the sad song. Sad. - Johnny Rod
American Psychiatric Association presented some interesting results on common spot drug testing methods in saliva, urine, hair and blood. The overall results are astounding, where false positives were estimated to range from 5 to 10%. Certainly, there are large variations depending on the method and parameter (type of drug) tested. However, the most common test methods were the ones with greatest amount of error.
"The THC DUI thing was created by big alcohol and their swamp creatures in Washington and forced down the public's throat. In marijuana legal states, DUI goes down, and so does booze sales. In the war of booze vs weed, they use the same tired, old trick, equating cannabis with alcohol and hard drugs, when they are pretty much the opposite." - Johnny Rodriguez
Onsite drug tests in practice don't have an accuracy of 99%. Scientific American found that the average is 5% false positives in common saliva and urine for THC and similar compounds. Even if a drug test could be made to be 99% accurate, that means that one in one hundred innocent people are badly hassled. This is compounded with actual positives in cases where the individual is not impaired and the quantity and effect of THC is greatly overestimated. American Psychiatric Association's had similar findings. These are the types of quotes that tend to impress a judge.
You can tell which way the wind blows. Have you ever heard of a weed smoker getting in an accident? Compare your own stats with your boozing buddies stories. So too do the top Feds know, a long time ago, that driving with THC in the system does not correlate with an increase in accidents. In something like 50,000 accidents, the analytics showed that THC users were no more likely to get in a crash as stone sober people. Alcohol of course is a disaster, at eight drinks plus. To conclude from these facts that driving while stoned is a OK is a stupid thing to do " - Johnny Rod
DEALING WITH DRUG TESTS
Unfortunately, invasive, and non-functional THC testing is sometimes conducted at the workplace. THC testing might be appropriate whenever complex and dangerous equipment is in use, but even then, residues from the weekend on Monday is irrelevant, and less relevant than a couple of beers on Saturday come Tuesday.
Where employers administer on the spot saliva drug tests employees who smoke moderate amounts of weed want to have a battle plan. To insure saliva is very probably clean, kits are available for $20 that actually work. The certo detox method comes from the street, is based on scientific principle and works well. With that said, don't push the detox method to the limits and get absolutely baked on Sunday and go into a Monday morning test.
Clearly, the advice is not to drive while stoned. Clearly THC in excess impairs many people's ability to operate complex machinery, but the neat thing about weed, is that weed impaired people overestimate their impaired state and strongly tend to stay away from dangerous activities all together. Still, there are a few outliers out there that can perform at a high level while stoned, such as MMA contender Nate Diaz, who probably fought very effectively while megadosing.
THINGS THAT INTERFERE WITH DRUG TESTING
Cold medications and antidepressants can trigger false-positive results on tests for amphetamines, antidepressant Zoloft and the painkiller Daypro can show up as a benzodiazepine problem, quinolone antibiotic drugs can trigger false positives for opiates, and the antiviral drug Sustiva can show up as THC.
Second hand smoke does not show up on roadside tests and is a worthless claim in court.
THC false positives is not the only problem. While opiate use is rampant, miniscule amounts of opium from poppy seeds can cause a regular citizen to be thrown into the hard drug user bracket. Poppy seeds contain a very tiny amount of opium and can show up in sensitive tests. Authorities without the proper understanding of these types of test results can make outlandish conclusions. There were about 150 million drug tests last year, which means that there were several million false positives, many of which, the results were misinterpreted, by authorities that were not well educated on the limitations and details in drug testing.
WHICH TEST IS EASIEST TO PASS?
If you have consumed, the easiest test to pass is a saliva test. Blood tests are the most difficult.
Saliva tests are most common, and false positives can be easily ruled out with a blood test. Mouthwash and saliva cleaning (gums and sucking on candies, mints) help clean out THC that can hang around for several hours after consumption. Toxin Rid Rescue Wash product seems to work, but we recommend that you do your own independent and up to date research on this item. Try Reddit, and other blogs in your research efforts.
CONSIDERATIONS IN FIGHTING A BLOOD TEST
Asaliva test has technically little to do with a GCMS blood test. The saliva test is based on a chemical reaction with THC that produces a color, with intensity related to the quantity consumed. In the GCMS test, THC is extracted from the blood and concentrated. Then the solvent with THC is injected into the GC analytical instrument, where the chemical components are separated and each compound's mass is detected. Actually, each molecule is fractured in the process producing a characteristic mass spectral profile, like a fingerprint. Though this method has interferences, they are very rare in practice and the GCMS nears 100% reliability.
With that said, in the lab there can be test sample mix, so to convict a person, the chain of custody process needs to be squeaky clean, where there is no reasonable chance that could be a mix up in the sample's journey, from collection to testing. Also in sample preparation, some samples or standard may be spiked with THC or some other substance, and error here needs to be ruled out. Cross sample contamination is and issue too, so the lab must show that the previous samples cannot have contaminated the positive result of your sample. Finally, a B sample should be retained, and independent test results should compare closely with the original test.
TESTIMONIALS AND ADVICE - FROM PEOPLE WHO PASSED AND WHO FAILED A THC TEST.
I'll have to do an oral drug test the day after, within 24 hours. Last time I used weed was 12 hours ago. Will it be okay? What should I do to pass that surprise examination? I have a suggestion, ask yourself ... Do you want to work for a place that cares for what you do for recreation at your own time? They use a safety at work reason, sure, if you believe that. Don`t be an idiot!
"Before driving or heading there, do brush, remove the plaque from tongue, gargle with 1 per cent hydrogen peroxide, rest water, then take a cotton swab used in dental practices and clean every part of your mouth. On the testing room, right before it, gargle again with the H2O2 solution. This process removes the old saliva and any piece that may be in your tongue and mouth system" - medical student
Of course, I did an oral anti-doping test and cleared it. I had read somewhere that eating some mints would work, but, I did not want to risk: i) Put 2 mints before the test, hiding under my tongue, just putting the swab in mouth ii) used H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) iii) ate a box of mints iv) brought a clean kit thinking that if I did not pass, I would volunteer for a urine test right there (paranoia). v) I gargled with brooms 4 ~ 5 times. It was some very scary minutes, but I cleared it. Not certain of what happened, I do not know what worked, what did not or if it was the combination...
Yes, thank you, the most helpful advice so far. When was the last time, in hours, that you used it?
At work. I maintained that despicable piece of cotton in my mouth for 3 whole minutes, it was like popsicle, I maintained it in an angle to touch it the minimum as possible. They have to send it to the lab, so it will take time. I stopped using it since the test, my idea was that I would deny it and retake the exam if it came positive. I was just being paranoid on my mind"
Yes, if you do not use it every day, it`s ok. Normally, the THT test can only detect up to 14 hours, after that, you are safe. You can find this info on Wikipedia, it only serves to catch people that are daily users.
Every day users of marijuana. Cannot be considered addicted.
Hope this works, my method is to brush cheeks inner side and use Listerine 3 times per day.
Aye aye, the saliva kind of tests are the optimal for marijuana users, rate of detection is the same as in other drugs. The outcome should be negative, but if you are paranoid, use water, lots of water, to clean it up.
It’s not actually correct, the THT test detects marijuana even when you aren't under marijuana effect, it is not like a breathalyzer, that you just blow on it.
I was not referring to the breathalyzer, it is being exclusively used for alcohol detection, it’s another different monster. I was referring to urine, blood, or hair analysis based tests, that detect a longer period for the usage of marijuana than the tests based on saliva.
Urine test would work better for me, because I have synthetic urine from www.quickfix.com... A saliva test does not work so well for me, the risk is higher for me.
Ask your supplier, you are not the first one with this problem, I used a kind of liquid to gargle one time that landed me my old job, I passed the test non the less... call around to the dispensers, they usually have something for that, Godspeed.
Some useful info in some research papers I found, THC in Saliva only has a half-life of 56 min. So yes, no worries, you are safe.
You are doomed, Listerine does not work. Have to say that you're screwed... on the next time, stop early and intake plenty of water to clean it from your body. Post again and tell us, honestly, how things went in your case, if it was positive or negative.
Hello, I I`m a usual marijuana user, maybe at least once or twice daily. I'm curious about experience results with this test. Yesterday, I used about half of a small joint in the day start, and then again 10~11 pm the same day. The next day I woke up prepared for a urine test with Quick Fix. However, when I went to the place to fill out and sign paperwork such as W2 and similar, getting ready for the urine test. After I finished filling the paperwork, they surprised me with an Oral-Eze, a saliva smear test, that was to be analyzed at Quest's lab. Probably the test came back positive and I failed it, however I have read about some similar cases and found some lucky bastards with negative results after only 8 hours of not using. I brushed after that marijuana last night and again when I woke up with an electric powered toothbrush. Ingested some water heading to the interview. My results come back in 2 days, should I go for looking for a new job?
Aye, If the test was minus 8 hours before your last marijuana smoke, my personal opinion is a 50-50 chance, it variates according to the lab's equipment and procedures. If the odds are in your favor, the lad just does a simple swab and no further testing. In this case you will not be caught unless you had marijuana about 10 hours before... if the answer is yes, you're risking it If they use GC/MS or any advanced spectrometry, your chances of positive test are almost sure... however, taking into account that medical-grade lab thresholds are 5μg/L; most labs I've seen have limits of up to or more than 5 times 5μg/L. If Quest is one of this cases, then you are in luck. Most just do a simple test and if you fail for that, they go further and recheck with a GC/MS method in order to reveal be certain about false positives. So most of your chances are on the 1st test.
The saliva test (420 EOL) has nothing in common with the GCMS test. 420 EOL is based on a simple chemical reaction with Tetraidrocanabinol (THC), but other substances can also activate the reaction and give false positive results. GCMS is more accurate extracting the compounds of only Tetraidrocanabinol (THC), then tested, and only the compound with a specific boiling point is finally analyzed or decomposed into fertilizer, ionized and divided into different parts (bulk loading units) that are identifiable. Later fragments are analyzed by PC and cross compared with a compost library that gives a percentage probability of match. Therefore, the positive results of a demonstration A and B using GCMS mean that you are incarcerated, 99% of 100 or higher.
I have some academic articles obtained here, but I do not have the patience to convert and link: ... Basically it all comes down to this:
Method and sensitivity are the types of test administered by this test. Reintegrating, hope they are lazy and use a simple, fast and cheap method that does not have to limit the low metabolism because it is the marijuana remaining metabolism elements that are going to screw you in the ass
Look for type and concentration of several cannabinoids in your body (as for example, THC-COOH that lingers longer than the other cannabinoids)
Hours since last consumption, not in days. According to all the research, as concentrations were undetectable in smokers, half were 2.5 hours of afterwards, averaging 6 hours of from usage
Yes, the correlation of plasma concentration and cannabinoid retention with OF detection (oral fluid) is a very contradictory results. It means that you may have a very high plasma concentration of TETRAIDROCANABINOL (THC) and it will not appear in the saliva test due to the variation of the contamination of your mucous membranes when you smoke cannabis, it varies from person to person.
Yes, I do not like "point fingers", however, there is terrible information and there is even worse advice. 1. There is no set time of "7 days" or a similar period that fixes the period of time needed for cannabis and its metabolites to be removed from your body. It varies tremendously and does not apply to a saliva test results: look at the paradox of previous plasma concentration and to search it on the internet, since I lost my excellent source and I`m too tired to find it 2. DO NOT tell a drug detection company that you use this or that, just request another test, alleging false positive. They probably won`t do it, however, this it's better than telling an organization whose sole purpose is to eliminate drug users, that you are one of those users. As a professional, do not share this kind of info. As for the excuse that my doctor prescribed me alternative medicine that contains marijuana will not fly. If I were in a legal marijuana state I would not be worried about this test. Do not follow the advice of this child that does not know what it is talking.
Of course, our anti-drug tests are defensible in court, our company oral fluid drug test panels detect drugs that are frequently consumed and produce beyond results, which means you can examine them with confidence. The oral sample is examined by an immunoenzymatic assay (EIA), in a proven and reliable methodology for routine drug testing. After that confirmation of any sample that is presumably positive in the initial tests is confirmed, to avoid false positives, by the use of another portion of the oral fluid sample using gas chromatography / mass spectrometry (GC / MS) or gas chromatography / mass spectrometry / mass spectrometry Mass (GC / MS / MS). Therefore, our Methodology comprises on a two-level test that ensures that positive results are verified and confirmed again. Certifications of Quest Diagnostics The evaluation sites of Employer Solutions maintain the Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments of 1988 (CLIA-88), the SAMHSA and CAP certifications, as well as any applicable state licensing that may apply.
Employers can test for a wide range of drugs Drug Class Screen Cut Off Confirmation Marijuana (THC) 3 ng/mL 1.5 ng/mL Methamphetamines 120 ng/mL 120 ng/mL Opiates 30 ng/mL 30 ng/mL* Phencyclidine (PCP) 3 ng/mL 1.5 ng/mL Amphetamines 150 ng/mL ?120 ng/mL Cocaine 15 ng/mL 6 ng/mL
This is a very sensitive test, as said, they confirm the results with GC / MS, although EI or EIA, as they say, will certainly produce a satisfactory result for the 1st round.
I'm curious if you can get a negative test with this method. Tell us know the outcome,
If you take a GC / MS test in your sample, all substances that have any metabolites in your system will be displayed and detected.
These tests are much more sensitive than in a simple urine test, so yes, you can probably lose TETRAIDROCANABINOL (THC) in the later one, however, it would seem with a more sensitive GC test!
I will keep your CV at hand. The herb remains in your body for 7 days, no exceptions, and it remains in your saliva, hair, blood and urine. You did the best you could to think about the future. Now think about what to say when they call you with a positive result. Tell them you have back pain and that you use marijuana at night for medical reasons. Excuse yourself and tell them you would find a medic for another legal prescription. If it does not get results, start looking for a job. I'm sorry for that fucking man, it sucks.
Yes, a week passed since last time I used marijuana, when I just smoked now and then and, with the help of a cleaning substance, I cleaned two weeks after my last joint as a daily common smoker. It depends according to your country's test requirements. However, in the United States and Canada, you are not caught if the urine test was not taken within a week of cleaning, and you are undergoing a blood test or they use a very low proportion of TETRAIDROCANABINOL (THC) in the blood.
I smoke the night before the anti-drug tests. Being without effects when you do the test should make you pass.
The cops are crazy about their drinks and drugs in Melbourne, so I was being paranoid. Thanks guys!
Affirmative, my girl's acquaintance used marijuana one night, did an anti-drug test directly the next morning and it came back negative.
However, again, this varies a lot from person to person. I would say that prevention is better than cure, and I suggest waiting at least 48 to 72 hours’ period. However, that is because I am a very prudent person. :)
Observation: the reason may be that the employer chooses tests that do not give positive results unless you exaggerated on the dose, this should be the case to explain it.
A saliva smear can be negative between 3 and 4 hours after use, depending on your body. After 5 to 6 hours everything is fine. This from personal experiences and research. TETRAIDROCANABINOL (THC) leaves your body very fast.
Yes, yes, I know that after 4 to 5 hours it would be good for a drug test. I do not know in which state he lives, however, here in Washington it is very rare to receive routine swabs, unless it is an alcoholic police stop, late at night in a morally unreliable area. I am also quite paranoid in driving after a marijuana session. You should be able to drive during the day and do not worry! Best of luck!
Online Comments of 420EOL: The legal marijuana ID usage card can be requested by any Californians who are not in perfect health. A physician looks into your medical record and can prescribe medical marijuana in accordance to the medical guidelines specified in state law, that were recently updated in 2018. 420EOL documents are used to purchase medical cannabis and its derivatives that are approximately 25 percent less when compared to marijuana from than recreational users or from dispensaries, and other access points in California and in some locations in Nevada. The process is fast, only a few minutes and there are no extra charges.
Hello, I come from Washington and I can tell you about these tests are not the most reliable things, I tried the testing my friends and partners, about 30 minutes later, they were completely stoned and the test came completely negative. I have heard from many people that simple candy and chewing gum prevents these tests from showing adequate results. Go to the pharmacy to have eyes clear and a small eclipse of mint maybe both. Personally I have not yet been rubbed yet, but I've been subjected to RBTd when I'm under great marijuana effect.
A simple way is to say that you drank a beer an hour ago, First, it would explain the red eyes, that could be blamed on the beer. Second, it will get them to chase after drunk driving, this will certainly make them test your breathing after alcohol drinking, but there will not be no alcohol, and you can describe any strange behavior or nervousness to alcohol and then when they come back, they think, okay, that person drank, however, they were honest and were waiting for the right moment before driving again. Eliminates any suspicion of marijuana and therefore, any tests after it.
Last advice: Drive safely, do not put too loud music, and I doubt you'll get noticed, unless it's a police stop that is checking everybody.